Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Preferred Way, a.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Retirement podcast brought to you by Preferred Trust Company, the preferred custodian for all alternative investments.
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Hi, welcome to the Preferred Way with Preferred Trust. We are so glad to have Larry back again. He's like our favorite CPAs. We keep bringing him back, super energetic. Today we're going to talk about a lot of things, but short. We're going to talk about buying properties, going to talk about the strategies of buying those both with cash and with an ira. But then we're going to focus a lot of our time on family legacy, which is something that Larry is very, very good at, making sure that they, that you, we, all of us, are able to leave a legacy to our family in a way that benefits them because not all legacies are beneficial.
So, Larry, thank you so much for joining us.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Thanks for having me back.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Hey, we're glad to have you. Quick intro. Let's just say the others have not seen the two other episodes you've been on with us. We're kind of making this a bit of a trend here.
And so tell us a little bit about you, your firm, just real brief.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Oh, yes, Larry Pelleton, the investor, CPA based out of Norfolk, Virginia.
But we serve clients all over the U.S. our niche is real estate because we do have a mission helping people build passive income and save on taxes. And we feel like real estate is a, is a big piece into that.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Absolutely.
All right, let's get into this.
We're going to do a compare and contrast.
We are going to buy a property with cash and we're going to buy a property in our ira. We're going to start with cash and we're going to look at this from a tax strategy perspective.
When buying a cash property, this is, you know, considered a second home, a rental.
Just think about it from all other aspects except your primary residence.
How can those properties be utilized from a cash purchase with the most tax benefits associated with cash purchase. Walk us through that.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: So in the sense of I'm assuming it depends. Can't be.
It's important to know. Okay. If we're talking about, let's just say we got two spouses. Both spouses are, are W2 employees.
So how they operate their property is going to determine if they see any tax benefits or not.
So let's just say they don't have any other investments. This is their first investment.
I'm typically going to advise them they have to operate this as a short term rental in IRS is short term rentals. Is anything where the Average stay per guest is seven days or less.
That allows both spouses to contribute to material participation and not have to qualify for real estate professional status. What is material participation?
I'll typically describe it as anything dealing with the, the physical property itself or the people living in the property. So you having to track your time of if you're being a property manager or doing the cleanings yourself or renovations. So now you're having to track your time ensuring that hey, are you going to do the 100 hours more than anybody else or just 500 qualifying hours that both spouses can split.
So with that particular type of property in place, the goal is to have these passive losses typically with a year one property to offset your W2 income. But we want to boost those even more by getting a cost segregation study report done, which is a separate engineering report.
Depending on the size of the property, varies in the price, but it's going to front load more your depreciation into year one that you're going to have it placed in service so that you have more deductions to offset your W2 income.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Clients do you have right now that are utilizing those strategies at least a lot?
[00:04:13] Speaker B: At least. I said definitely. Over 80% of our clients are, are using the, either the real estate professional status or the short term rental loophole to, to, to maximize on passive losses to offset other, other income they got coming in.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: Would you be breaking down cost segregation and the meaning behind it how it works?
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Oh man, I wish I got, I got, I got a PowerPoint slide when I presented people is it's a Big Mac.
So typically I don't know the, the, the prices are, are, are dated because they got the Big Mac at like 3.99. So when you buying a property, let's just say the short term rental is going to depreciate over 39 years after you back out the land value.
So but within that property itself, similar to a Big Mac, there are other components that makes up that Big Mac. And you know the song to all beef pegs, extra sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions and a sesame seed bun.
Each of those items have a particular cost. But we don't know that until this engineering company comes in and actually breaks those components out and assigns a value to them. And then the accounting department of that cost company then like hey, well that's five year property or that's 15 year property or that's 39 year property. So somewhere between 20, 30% of the building of the building value is going to go to property that qualified for bonus. And then now you're able to accelerate your depreciation more in that first year based off that cost irrigation study. That's the, that did that. Breaking, that breaking out for you.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Amazing.
Honestly, everybody should know about cost certification.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: I think you say big max.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Well, I mean, you're not going to forget about it anymore. And that's why we bring Larry on. Because we need to take really complicated things and make them simple so that people understand what it is. And if you don't want to take that time, then nevertheless pick up the phone and call Larry and you know, become a client of his. Because the value that he can add and the tax savings components that he can add is, it's really kind of crazy how many of us have no idea about that. And unfortunately not all CPAs are made equally. Right? They all don't specialize in, in real estate or property ownership or you know, cost segregation.
But, but you need somebody that does. And the vast majority, you just said 80% of your clients are utilizing these strategies or have, you know, rental properties or, or income generating properties. And you know, that's kind of the lay of the land right now for investors, right? It's your first home and you know, you have your 401k plan and you might have some, you know, ancillary stocks, bonds, mutual funds sitting on the side in a cash account. And then you have a rental property or you have, you know, a property that you're generating income from and that's great, that's totally great.
But if there's other ways that you can be adding value with it, not just being the equity in the property to you from a financial standpoint, why wouldn't you want to do that? Right? And so this big theory is now ingrained in my head. That is hilarious. Honestly. You should send that over to us because update, update your numbers a little bit. Send that over to us and we will post that to promote this podcast because that is the reality. Those are the components, all of those components in between that bun, is really what you should be looking at. So that's from a cash perspective.
All right, now let's look at it from an IRA perspective.
Why when should you, should you not like when does it make sense to put a rental property or a short term investment property into, or fix and flip, throw them all out there, right? When should those strategies be utilized with an ira?
[00:08:23] Speaker B: When it comes to the, the rental property, you really have to determine because I tell people it's, do you want to grow your grow Your, your future wealth or save on taxes. Like they're, they're like that, that's a two step dance that you have to pick which side you're going to do because if you want to grow your wealth then like hey that's when you want to move to moving your rentals or buying rentals out of your self directed retirement accounts. But just know that you're not able to pass off those losses to your, to your personal tax return. So you really have to understand of like I've got so many clients that still having to kind of like remind them of that like no, you bought this through this because you wanted to have assets in your retirement account or they may have some other, have some other offsetting deductions within their retirement accounts for, for their particular reasons.
But you're not going to do the whole cost segregation study and all that stuff when it's retirement account because it's like I said, it's all passive. Even if it's showing income, you're not going to be hit with unrelated business income tax because you're just passively as long as you're not self managing the property. So like like you, you're going to drop properties in there where like hey if you're in a position where you don't need deductions or you can't, you can't, you can't do the short term rental loop strategy then hey let's go ahead and try to build that retirement account and have some assets in there in the future.
Stay passive like don't, don't operate it and, and let it, and let it grow and appreciate from there. So that's when from the aspect of rentals flips very very delicate, really delicate dance that you're doing because to be safe you don't want any flips in your retirement accounts because you're not supposed to be running a active business.
Now if you're just doing one or two. Okay. You may not be considered running a active business.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: With flips. But it's just, it's just, it's just a caution of like hey one or two and stay out of it.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: You're absolutely right.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Just be, just, just be a lender on somebody else's deal.
As long as you're just kind of avoiding the, the, the up up or down restrictions restricted people that you can, that you can lend to so you can grow your retirement account that way while not being an active flipper.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All, all great advice and I agree with you. There's A time and a place for it. And the overarching strategy of what you're trying to do is it has to be thought through.
You know, and we've previously talked about this too with like oil and gas, like you put oil and gas investments in your ira. I mean, I don't see it very often, but why would you do that right when you could take the tax write off? So there's, there's, there's advantages and disadvantages to both for sure. Without a doubt, probably my apologies to cut you off.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: A lot of times people do that because desperate, most of their capital is like they have these large retirement accounts and okay, yeah, they can take a loan out but that's going to be up to a certain limit that that custodian allows at that point. So like they're, they're almost kind of stuck to having to buy if they wanted to get involved and invest and just get, and just getting going. But you just got to know that you're just kind of limited to what you can actually do and then what you're going to see on your personal tax return.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Yeah, you know what I see a lot in the retirement accounts is they go to an event where they're being educated about, you know, buying property and they don't have enough money to buy it.
And so what we tend to see quite a bit is the, the option of the non recourse loans being utilized with the ira.
And I gotta tell you, there's pros and cons to that. Right. Because now you've got a loan, you've got a property manager that you're paying, you know, cost on top of cost on top of cost.
And, and with an ira, you know, one thing that I think we forget about, which is kind of crazy because most of us are homeowners that, that have IRAs, most of us are or have owned property at some point. So you know that there are carrying costs like the hot water heater goes out, the air conditioning goes out, the dishwasher goes out, the toilets get clogged. Like it's just, it's inherited that that's going to happen.
And unfortunately, unfortunately, unfortunately when that happens on our primary residence, what do we do? We dip into our cash and we pay for it. Well, when you own it in your ira, you got to dip into your IRA pay for it, assuming your IRA has money to pay for it. And so you know, and you don't know when these things are going to happen. Now at preferred trust we require a 5% holdback in your account based on the amount that the loan is total loan associated with the property or value of the property for that very reason. So that we don't get clients in a situation where they're unable to tend to the needs of the property. And I think that's probably the biggest issue with owning a property inside of an Iraq. It's how to plan for things you don't know.
How do you plan for that?
How do you make sure that you have the available cash in your retirement account to plan for the unknown? It's very difficult as individuals. Right. With cash. Maybe we don't have the cash. What do we do? We go to our credit cards. I mean that's just a natural progression of what happens. But IRAs really limit and you have to be really thoughtful about, you know, when you buy properties in your IRA to allot for a decent hold back for the what if moment.
So that one's, that one's tough.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Typically I'll tell people like, yeah, just stick to private lending.
Buying mortgage notes.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Keep it simple.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, really kind of keep it simple where it's like, hey, someone else is kind of controlling the asset. But like, you know, this is difficult to have tangible assets in your retirement account that you, to your point, like, and people don't realize like that's what the custodian is for, is really to protect you on yourself. Because you all know that like you just not going to, I, I have rentals.
The returns are up and down every year because so much money is having to be put to some type of repair or the 10 is not paying.
Especially if you got a loan on it now you got other, other, other, other buckets of income that you got coming in to get to that.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It, it's complicated and I think sometimes custodians just make it sound so simple. It's not simple. Owning real estate inside of your IRA is, is complex. It's definitely complex.
But owning it outside of your IRA can also be complex.
How do you work with your clients to make sure that they're documenting from a cash perspective, documenting everything that's happening with that property? Do they send it to you as it happens? Do they accumulate it throughout the year and then you can, you know, reconcile it? How does, how does that happen? If, if I'm a client working with you and I have five short term rental properties.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Yeah. So I tell my clients all the time, like I, I advise and I prepare tax returns as if they're going to be audited because I much Rather be ready than to get ready. If that letter ever comes. Like, I'm not even going to knock on wood. Like, if it comes, I know that, like, hey, we can give them whatever documentation that they need and we can pass it off to them and they can go kick rocks at that point because they got shuffled through all that.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: So proactive, not reactive.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So, okay, we got, we got a share 5 portal for a reason. We may not go through every invoice and receipt because like we're gonna do a reasonable test for the sake of like the save on time.
But we also know that's how auditors look at it as well. Like they're, they're, they're, they're, they can't go through, they can't go through every receipt invoice. So we kind of know how their audit guide is. So like, let's make sure we got the major items on over a certain dollar threshold or percentage of your total expenses and make sure we have an actual time log in place of what you're spending on each of your properties. We don't need 500 hours per property. We can do special elections to group all your activities together, but work on having that time log in place. And I know it's tedious for folks and I know it's annoying, but with any tax saving strategy.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: People have to realize it's going to cost you time and, or money.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Gotta work for it.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, nothing, just going. I was talking to a client earlier today, it's actually about the cost irrigation study. And I told him like, yeah, they're probably going to charge you like two, $4,000. And he was like, what? Like, but you're about to get $13,000 in tax savings.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: And you gotta track your time. But is all for the greater good to get these deductions that you're, that you're claiming that you're, that no one's telling you about until now.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Absolutely nothing in life comes free.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: No.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: And I always, I always say that to individuals. You know, if, if you're looking to benefit from these tax loopholes, then, you know, chances are documentation is going to be much higher.
The allocation of your time to make sure that you're documenting all of this is going to be much higher.
Just know that, be prepared for that. But it'll be worth it in the end if, if, you know, you really set yourself up, set yourself up and prepare for it, then, you know, who cares? I mean, we're talking tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially. That can be Saved by putting in a little bit of effort and a little bit of money.
So it's, it's definitely worth it. Okay, all right. This was completely unplanned. But I see that you're wearing a shirt.
I don't know what it says, but I can see value.
Can we see the total of that shirt? There's something below.
Oh, there you go.
Big Mac couldn't have said it any better. Right?
It's not on the value menu. Sometimes it's on the value menu, but.
Oh, it's never a dull moment when you're interviewing Larry, I got to tell you.
But he's laughing too. So we're gonna play a little game, here we go. Called the value of what you know. Are you ready, Larry? I'm going to ask you six questions.
First question.
Let's say that an owner changes their own locks on a self directed IRA property. Allowed. Not allowed.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Not allowed.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Not allowed. Ding, ding, ding. You're correct.
Second question. A son in law gives a friends and family discount on the roofing. Allowed. Not allowed.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Not. Not allowed.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: Not allowed. Not allowed.
The investor fronts $600 for a plumber on a weekend and plans to reimburse later.
Allowed.
Not allowed. The investor, by the way, is a self directed IRA client.
Can they pay the $600 on a weekend and get reimbursed by the custodian?
Trick question.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Okay, so is he paying the custodian or is he paying the. So he's paying the plumber.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Playing the plumber. It's a Saturday.
Okay, can he get reimbursed on that from the custodian come Monday?
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Not allowed.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: You're right, it's not allowed. Yeah, think about that for just a.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Second because people, people going to hear, but I'm being reimbursed my custodian. So technically my custodian paid it. And it was like, no, like you should not. It's always like, just don't touch the property at all.
[00:20:40] Speaker A: So you know how to get around that. This is how you get around it, everybody. And again, sometimes you got to pay a little to get a little. But having a property manager in place would put you in a position where on Saturday the tenant's not calling you to pay for the plumber, they're calling the property management company to pay for the plumber. Yeah, there we go. I mean, there's a way around it, but you got to work at it.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: I thought, I thought you were saying they were paying the plumber to stay at the Airbnb.
I was like, why?
[00:21:13] Speaker A: No the plumber's not staying at the end, Larry.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: That's gonna mix me up. I was like, why have the plumber stay in there? But yeah.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Hilarious. Okay, next question. Question number four. The investor or the self directed IRA client personally guarantees a small line of credit tied to their self directed asset. Allowed. Not allowed line of credit on the asset in the ira.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: So this is for a separate investment and they're personally guaranteeing that.
That's a good one there.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: I know.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: So they're. So they're, they're getting a loan, a separate loan in their personal name.
Not allowed. Because you're basically circumventing the custodian where the asset is actually held under.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Correct. He gets another one.
Number five. The self directed IRA buys into an llc.
The self directed custodian spouse is the minority member of that llc. Allowed. Not allowed.
IRA buys into llc.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: Spouse is investor.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Spouse is the minority member of the llc. Allowed.
Not allowed.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Horizontals.
She's minority owner.
Allowed.
[00:23:06] Speaker A: Not allowed.
Here's why you were getting there.
Spouse qualified. Disqualified.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Disqualified.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Disqualified based on minority or majority ownership.
I'm just screwing with you, Larry. You got it right.
It was minority, majority. If it was majority, what would the answer be?
[00:23:37] Speaker B: It'd be not allowed because.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I was like. I think I was, damn, Larry's good. If I was wrong, I was like.
[00:23:44] Speaker A: Like, damn, you can't even trip him up.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: Hey, those, those are good questions. Those are really good questions.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: These are good questions, right? Okay, last one, last one. We haven't been able to trip them up yet. Let's see if we can. On this one. Tenant is the investor's college age child.
He's charging market rent with a third party manager.
Allowed.
Not allowed.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Property management, please.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Tenant is the client's college age child. We've seen this happen before, Larry.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Right?
[00:24:30] Speaker A: We're going to buy the property. Kids going to college. I'm going to slam that thing in my IRA and I'm going to rent it to them through a property manager.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Property management company.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: Mmm. Oh, it's a good one. It's a good one.
Who is this person? Who is this person they're renting to, Larry?
[00:24:55] Speaker B: Initially, the child is disqualified.
I'm trying to, I'm trying to justify it being qualified because of the property management company in place.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: I know, right?
Okay.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: I'm gonna say allowed on that one.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Okay, so here's the thing with this one.
This one, because the custodian knows that it's a disqualified person, they're renting to it wouldn't be allowed.
But here's the, here's the tricky part about it, because there's a management company set up. How would the custodian ever know that?
[00:25:48] Speaker B: That, that's. That was the logic I was trying to make. Make sense of. Of.
Yeah. Like you don't know who there. You just happen to buy a property in, in the college town, and then the, the property manager is just looking at names and applications.
They're not saying, hey, John Smith. Like that's the last name of my, of my. Of my client.
But. So, yeah, that, that's, that's the part that I was trying to justify is that the property management company is the one still in control of all this. If there wasn't one, it'd be a. Clear. Clear. No, clear.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
Damn, that. That was good.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: This is a challenge, right?
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: So we've got six questions.
This value challenge right here tells you exactly why we have individuals on our team, on our financial team like Larry, because you have to evaluate all of those pieces of the puzzle. And the whole point in that game, Larry, was we're just playing on the evaluation. Is there value? Is there not?
And in these scenarios, technically all of them are not allowed.
But it really makes you think about it. Right. Except for the one where the minority wasn't the majority. It made it an allowable event.
You have to work with people that will take the time, like Larry, to evaluate all of those different scenarios, just like we did. Cash versus ira. Where do you put it? Where do you not.
As you can see, when you put these properties in an ira, there's a lot, a lot more of the valuation process that has to be determined. So you want to make sure when you do this, please don't just depend on the custodian to be reviewing this for you, because the custodian only knows what you tell them. Right. If I didn't know that your college student was living in that property owned by your ira, I don't know that it's a disqualifying event, because what I see is a property management company.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: So keep that in mind, you know, and, And Larry and I have to keep those things in mind too, as professionals in the field to try to protect you.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
Because from the, from the galleys of it, obviously, if I'm in Virginia and my.
One of my sons went to University of Miami.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: And I bought a. I just happened to buy a property in Miami near the university.
Like, I don't think that can hold up in court, but if I got, I got rental properties where I live at and my son decides to stay and just didn't want to live at home, just want to get his own place and they got the property management company then like, I mean it's, it's, I mean that's, that's, that's not a coincidence. I mean that's, that's a coincidence at that point. Yeah, so, yeah, so that, that man, I don't be thinking about that now.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: I know now he's gonna be thinking about that one. We're gonna play a game next time too. Different topic obviously, but it's really thought provoking. It makes you really think about where should you be putting these properties and what is in your best interest to have in your self directed IRA versus your cash investments.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: You know, there's a lot that goes into that. It's not as simple as just snap your fingers and it happens and oh, you got tax sheltered or tax free or you know, cost segregate. I mean there's so many different variables in that. Which leads me into a topic that I wanted to talk about last time, which is building a legacy and what that all entails.
And we didn't get to touch on this too, too much, but we're all thinking it. You know, there's, there's, you know, if you bust your butt for 20, 30, 40 years and if you have engaged the right people around you, I always tell everybody, you know, it takes a village. It really does. It always does. Whether you're at work, whether you're at home, you know, as a mom, like it takes, you gotta have people around you to help you. You can't just be the perfect wife, the perfect mom, the perfect this with six kids, sometimes you got to call upon people to help you out. Same thing with building a legacy. If you're going to build a legacy, legacy doesn't always have to, always have to mean money. It doesn't. It could be property, it could be assets, it could be. There's so many other variables associated in building a family legacy.
So I want to ask you, Larry, because I think at some point your clients probably get to asking this question. You know, your 20s, your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, we're kind of selfish. We're thinking about ourselves, we're thinking about building our own wealth, we're thinking about those things. But then as we get into our 60s and our 70s and our 80s, we really start to say to ourselves, am I ever going to be able to spend all of this?
How do you Build one for a legacy, you know, in your 20s, your 30s or 40s. What should we be thinking about that we're not.
And then when we get to an age where we're like, we're never going to be able to spend this, how do you figure out how to leave that to others that benefit them? That has a benefit. Because not all legacies have benefits. I've seen some legacies really destroy families.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's real. Yeah. So now we're talking about like wealth preservation at that point. Now we're looking into revocable living trust and starting to like, hey, let's, let's, let's just get this trust umbrella around us to kind of increase some anonymity to help protect you from creditors and, and attorneys and people just, I mean, we live in a society. People, yeah. Finally they know who owns it. They can find reason to sue their sue.
So just kind of everything structured from that standpoint there.
But also it's, it's also during that time of building, like, and if you're at that point now, like, how are you like getting the family involved with the business, whether they're part of your board or they, they may be employees or 1099, depending wherever everyone got set up from that perspective there, how are they involved with the investments and are they fully aware of what's going on in your portfolio? Growing your business so that if you, if you, if you do pass the ball to them, you got some, you pretty, pretty sure that it's not going to be dropped because you got the safeguards in place after that, you got the right attorneys to kind of help legally get everything structured in place. The, the accounting for the, for the finance and make sure that that's all in order as well. So it's, it's, it's multiple moving pieces as you discussed before. Like, it's, I mean, it truly is a team sport.
So you gotta make sure you got the right, the right, the right coaches, the right, the right teammates to kind of help build this along the way. Because you're now shifting mindset from go, go, go to okay, let's start trying to like, protect more stuff. Yeah, having that down the line. And that's kind of the beauty part about the revocable living trust and having the will because, like, you can keep, keep everything pretty fluid without having to worry about any extra like tax returns and all that. Like, that all kind of be solved on the back end.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Thank you for the joining us on this episode of the Preferred Way on Family Legacy and make sure that you like comment and subscribe and join us as we continue our journey on all things tax strategies. See you next time.
Thanks for joining us for another episode where retirement savers meet alternative investments. Can't wait for the next episode. To learn more, visit our website at preferredtrustcompany. Com.
