[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Preferred Way, a retirement podcast brought to you by Preferred Trust Company, the preferred custodian for all alternative investments.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Preferred Way. I'm Kris Trembley, director of operations and today joining me is Christina Ramirez. She is our client service supervisor for Preferred Trust Company. Thanks for joining us today, Christina. So Christina deals with all things client services, the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between.
And so today we're going to talk talk about is your current custodian failing you and some of the challenges we face when we're looking to transfer assets from one custodian to another.
So you deal with it all on the front end of things. So I think one of the things I kind of want to know from you is what is the tone out there of obviously we sometimes we're transferring from other self directed custodians. We're transferring from big box companies, the Charles Schwab's Edward Joneses. Those seem to be a little less painful than the ones that are within our industry in the self directed world. So tell me a little bit about that.
[00:01:13] Speaker C: Yeah, when a client's transferring from one of those big box companies, typically what they're moving over is just cash because we can't accept the assets that those big companies like a Fidelity or Charles Schwab hold.
So when we submit our transfer request, it's ready to go. They've got cash in there, it's sent over and those typically happen within a couple of business days. On the other hand, when we're transferring from another self directed custodians, a lot of the times we're clients moving assets and that can take quite a bit more time.
And I think a reason for that taking more time is these self directed custodians.
To me, just in my experience with them, they seem to be a little less organized. They don't really have their finger on the pulse of the, of their clients and their assets and what's in their ira. And then when it's time to transfer them, it seems to be a bit of a scramble. And then the client is on the other end waiting and we're waiting. And a lot of times we have a hard time even getting in touch with them.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: So yeah, I think that's interesting. You know, you have the end of it, of the client who's trying to move their account, who's trying to reach someone, you know, maybe their client representative trying to get the assets over to us. And then you have our side of it, who we're trying to help the client get their, you know, and so we have a lot of the similar experiences though. What are some of the complaints that clients, that we're hearing from clients when they're trying to do this?
[00:02:42] Speaker C: Well, first off is that they can ever get a representative to on the phone, either answering the phone or calling them back if they leave a voicemail or even responding to email sometimes, which I can confirm. I have the same issue. Yeah. When we submit a transfer request, we, our team, our transfer department reaches out after we submit it to ensure that the other company, the other custodian has received it, to ensure everything's in good order just to stay on top of things. But some of the time we can't even get through to them or they tell us they won't communicate with third parties. Have the client reach out and then the client will reach out and they can't get them on the phone. So it's like their transfers in limbo. Sometimes we don't even know if they have the transfer.
It's. It's a, it's a communication problem.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: You know, I find it very interesting. Like since we opened our doors in, in 2007, we've always had the same process for outbound transfers. So if we're sending somebody's assets out, our requirements have never changed. It's always been the same. It's very standard and we process through the same, the same way. But what I see, and sometimes when I hear from you all is that, you know, it's all over the board with. And then they lose it or they can't. Their requirements are crazy.
So what are the biggest challenges for us when it comes to the titling of assets and like finding assets to begin with?
[00:04:06] Speaker C: I. Yeah, and I have had this experience recently because there have been some self directed custodians out there that have merged together.
Some of three of them have merged to one. And when that happens, what I'm finding is the assets that clients have are not titled correctly.
Sometimes the clients don't know who their custodian is after a merger. I've had that experience with them a lot and they say so and so holds my assets and that's not even where they are.
So when they ask them to send me a copy of whatever they're sending, sometimes like a promissory note, I will see that it's been transferred a couple of times incorrectly.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: So no amendments when it's been transferred.
[00:04:47] Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. The promissory note is still at the beginning and it's moved xyz, but it doesn't reflect that.
So then we kind of have to backtrack because we're a very compliant company and we're not going to accept assets like that. So some that are entitled correctly. So we have to sort of backtrack and work with the client to get them titled correctly so that we can actually make the transfer. And I think a lot of that does has to do with the lack of organization and the lack of communication these other custodians have with their clients.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: So it's interesting you mentioned promissory notes, but we've had that with properties where they haven't been titled correctly and they've actually maybe moved from, you know, previously before us moved a couple custodians and no new deed has been created.
[00:05:33] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: And we're, we're at a loss there. There's, you know, there's not a whole lot we can do if it hasn't moved through because that original custodian may not even be around anymore.
[00:05:45] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: So what do we do in those situations?
[00:05:49] Speaker C: I know that I have recently worked with a client who, who had. It was the same situation. They have a deed they needed to a property they needed to move over.
And when I saw the documents, we had to go back and get it re recorded in the proper county and then we can transfer it and then rerecord it. And it's costing the client time, it's costing the client money.
And the other custodian, even though it's in their custody, is really not doing anything about it. We're the ones doing the legwork.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: They didn't have the deed to begin with.
[00:06:17] Speaker C: They didn't have it to begin with. I don't think they ever checked it. I don't think they've got like compliance in check, checks and balances in place to assure that, okay, we're accepting this asset and we have completed everything we have and we can move forward. I don't know that they're doing that, but we're doing that. And they're the clients should be assured that when you move your asset here, when the time comes to move it somewhere else or it's matured, it's going to be correct.
We make sure upfront that it's done. So at the end of the client's investment, there's no issues, it's seamless and they can move, take their money and move forward or reinvest whatever they want to do.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah, because I'm imagining if the property isn't titled correctly, what if they go to sell it. Right. And then you're working with the title company, and the title company is like, the deed's not even in the correct name. Like, it. It can slow down. It could even mean the loss of a sale, you know, if the buyer is not willing for all these corrections to be done.
[00:07:12] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: So it's a big deal.
[00:07:15] Speaker C: And the client doesn't even know, isn't even aware that all of these issues are there. And they're thinking, they have this deal, they want to move their assets, whatever the reason is, and they can't do it. And it's very frustrating for us because we're trying to help the client with an issue that we didn't create.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: And they can't get the person who created the issue to help them out.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: Right. Well, they might be long gone.
[00:07:37] Speaker C: That's true. They might not even be around anymore.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: I think it's, you know, it's always interesting when we do have to go through those corrective actions and things like that, you know, I mean, time is money, and clients can absolutely lose out on potential investments and that type of thing, you know. And the other thing is, I think clients have to be a little bit more diligent. I think the important thing is learning that when you make an investment, you want to have copies of all of your investment docs, you know? Yes. And for us, we make sure when a client is making an investment that. That the client reads every document and signs off initials, the documents as read and approved before we' ever sign.
[00:08:20] Speaker C: Right.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: Because that's an important step, you know, and so I think sometimes some of these other clients, they let. They let. There's some of these other custodians let clients just sign the documents for themselves. I noticed that. I noticed that sometimes it's in the client's personal name, or it could be in the name of the ira, but then it's attached to the client's personal Social Security number. Oh, my gosh. What? Huge error. Terrible. That can cause. Yes, terrible. I mean, we're talking about taxation problems, so. Yeah, there's. There's big issues out. Big issues. So tell me a little bit about, like. Okay, so how long are the wait times? I mean, I. Sometimes I'll look and. And y' all are on the phone for, like, you're doing a million other things and listening to some, like, music on hold.
[00:09:07] Speaker C: Yes, the whole music. The whole music.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: You know what. What's the longest hold time you've seen?
[00:09:11] Speaker C: I mean, I have been on a call where they tell you the whole time is 60 minutes. And I've waited 60 minutes and they haven't picked up.
Some of them will keep you on hold just for a couple of minutes and then ask you to leave a voicemail to get a return call. And I don't get a return call.
It's frustrating.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: I once called a custodian to try and help a client. And the voice message, the outgoing voice message from the other custodian was, we don't allow you for efficiency. We don't allow you to leave a message. Just email us. I was thinking, wow, okay. And then it just like cuts off.
[00:09:43] Speaker C: And then, oh, God.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: So, yeah, there's also that.
So tell me. I think like you mentioned the disorganization and the lack of communication.
I'm guessing some of that might be because they're actually not all at the same location.
[00:10:00] Speaker C: Yes, that's a good point. I think after Covid, a lot of people did not return to the office and still, even five years later, still work from home.
And just in, just in my department, I know that I don't understand how that works because me and my team are constantly communicating.
We have a client service team. Some of us work on investment, some of us work on accounting.
I work in the front end with onboarding clients and helping them with their transfers. But we always communicate with each other because at some point the client's going to run through each department.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: So I feel like being verbal, outspoken. Hey, this is the issue I'm having with this client. Is good to talk amongst yourselves. So they kind of know the situation when that client eventually comes into their, you know, their department. Yeah, but if half of my team was working at home and I just don't see how, I just don't see how any processes can be, you know, can be done fully. There's no communication.
Here's an example. We process outgoing transfers with the company that we've processed outgoing transfers with many, many times. And almost every single time it's not correct. They don't send us the correct documentation even though we have told them, I don't know how many times are you talking about what's required, what needs to happen. And then when they reach out for an update which we, you know, respond in a timely manner and we let them know, no, XYZ didn't happen.
I just don't know what happens to that email, what happens if to that correspondence. You would think, oh, this is prefers trust requirements, we should document that.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Sometimes it's even the same person from that point.
[00:11:40] Speaker C: Sometimes it's even the same person.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Yes. That you've told.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: I think we know.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Yes, I think we do. It's very interesting. And yet they claim to be a supervisor or a manager or customer care specialist. I'm like, what kind of care is this? You're obviously not caring.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: You're not caring because if you cared, you wouldn't have to ask the question twice.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: I returned a call to a custodian just last week about a client, and I gave them all the information and I went over, answered all of their questions.
The next day, I get a call from a different person at the same custodian with the same questions. So I don't.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Conversation.
[00:12:14] Speaker C: Where's that conversation? Are they not documenting it? I just. It's. It's frustrating.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: It's so frustrating.
[00:12:20] Speaker C: It's frustrating. On our end, we were very good with documentation. We document all of our phone calls.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: We've had the same, you know, we do update our processes here and there, but for the most part, we've not changed our requirements from a compliance standpoint. So it's not like every other day we're telling these companies, well, today we want it this way, but tomorrow we'll want it this way. We're very standard in everything we want.
[00:12:44] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: So it's. It's surprising when. When they can't get it right.
[00:12:47] Speaker C: When they can't get it right.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah. For the 10th time. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about.
So obviously, we know some of the challenges that come with assets not being titled correctly. But then you have cash investors that are wanting to make a change because they are feeling like they have not received the best possible customer service. Where they are, they have.
Maybe the custodian is not acting in their best interest as far as, you know, the efficiency behind the transactions that the client is trying to make.
And I noticed that sometimes even cash takes a while from those in our industry.
These clients are losing out on potential investments. Right. Because their cash isn't here.
[00:13:34] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: So, yeah. And also, the investment sponsor who's offering the investment is, you know, they have deadlines as well.
[00:13:42] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: And when we can't get that cash move, they're missing out on a cat, you know.
Yeah, exactly. On raising capital. So all around, it's very, you know, it. You have to do your due diligence, I think, is important. So customer service, I think from the point of your individual client who's opening the account and, you know, investment sponsors who's working, maybe sending A majority of their clients to a single particular custodian should also be doing their due diligence. Right. Because in the end, you know, as the investment sponsor, you are standing behind this custodian or self directed IRA company telling your clients you work with them. But then the customer service that is happening, it makes the investment sponsor look bad. Sometimes. It does, you know.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Yeah, it can, absolutely.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:34] Speaker C: A lot of the clients, they kind of don't understand the difference between a custodian and an investment sponsor. And I think that goes back to when they're setting up their account.
That conversation needs to be had. This is who we are. This is who you're making your investment with. I try to be very clear up front with the client so they understand and even separate entities. Separate entities, separate things.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: We are not licensed to give investment advice or to make investments. And those other companies, a lot of times these investment sponsors or particular, offering particular types of investments, they're acting in the capacity of a custodian that they're misrepresenting themselves.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: They misrepresent themselves exactly who they are.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: And in the end, that makes so much confusion for the client.
[00:15:16] Speaker C: It does. Specifically, I would say with precious metals. When clients invest in precious metals, there's three people, there's three entities that are involved. There's your IRA custodian, there's your precious metals dealer, and there's your depository. And they're three separate for a reason.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:15:35] Speaker C: They have to be separate like that. That's right. But sometimes the clients make their investment. They come to their custodian through their precious metal dealer. They're referred over there. But I don't think it's made to them that this is, this is your ira, and this is your custodian holding your ira. And we, as your precious metals dealer have nothing to do with that. We're only handling your investment.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Only handling your investment to the point that the only thing they're doing is buying and selling. That's it.
[00:16:01] Speaker C: That's all they can do through a precious metal. That's correct. And then those metals.
A lot of the clients think that Preferred trust holds your ira, storing them. So we're also storing your metals and. No, that's not how it works.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: No, we don't have a basement that we're storing. We don't have space for that type of work.
[00:16:19] Speaker C: Some of our clients think we might think we have them in the back closet, but they have to be put into a depository. And sometimes with the clients that they don't understand that so if they're coming to us directly or even if they're referred to us from one of our company partners or precious metal dealer, I try to just have the conversation, make sure they understand these are three separate entities.
You're going to get billed for your depository, but it has to be paid through your ira. I just try to make them understand that if they have a question about their precious metals, reach out to your dealer. But about your ira, reach out to us.
I think some of them do get it. Some of them, they don't really understand, but it's on us to be patient and to make sure that we clarify it for the client and make sure we walk them through everything so that they're at the end of the call, they at least have an understanding.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's super important is the onboarding call that we do when a client comes over.
And the first thing I think is interesting too is if an investment sponsor doesn't want you having contact with, with the client, the client should run, run, run as fast as you can and as far away as you can because there's something behind the reason why they don't want you talking to the custodian.
[00:17:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: You know, as an IRS regulated company, you know, we follow federal rules and regulations when it comes to retirement accounts. We are super compliant and those calls are necessary. You know, know your client. That's our, that's a big thing for us.
And so if, yeah, if you're getting the feeling like you're not being told exactly who's holding your, your medals or you're thinking that the dealer is holding your medals, oh boy. You need to, to run far and fast.
[00:17:59] Speaker C: And a problem I think is that because like you said, they do misrepresent themselves and they, they try to, they're salespeople. Of course they're salespeople. And they're going to use all of the tools in their tool belt to sell.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:18:12] Speaker C: Whatever it is they're trying to sell, to sell their metals, to sell the ira, even if they're not the ones selling it. Corre important to do your due diligence. Even if you got off the phone call and it felt great, this was a great conversation. I'm so happy. I still think it's important. Go to the website, go to the custodian's website, do your research, look at reviews. Reviews are so important.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: I think that's interesting too, that you said like, yeah, it's not just doing your due diligence about the investment sponsor, but again, like we started this conversation on is about the IRA company.
[00:18:43] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: First of all, are they licensed and regulated? You know, not all of us are in the industry are created equally. There are, I, there are administrators out there, self directed IRA administrators. They are not licensed custodians. There's probably a custodian behind them somewhere.
But the ones that you're talking to on the phone, the ones that you're filling out your paperwork with, they're not regulated in any way, shape or form. So you want to make sure you know who you're working with, no matter what type of investment that you're making. And like you said, we encourage people look at the reviews.
[00:19:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Look at the reviews. Ask the questions.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Ask the questions.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: When was your company, when was your company formed? Are you licensed administrator, like ask the questions.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:26] Speaker C: A lot of times they don't know the questions to ask also. But just if you are concerned, if you have a weird feeling and you.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: Can call us, we'll just call us.
[00:19:33] Speaker C: We'Ll talk to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want to make sure the client is making the best decision for them. Even if that's not going to be at Preferred Trust. We want to make sure that they're doing their research and they're going to make the best decision decision for their financial future.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: For sure. Yeah. So reviews and you know, I know that's a, that's a big thing for us, obviously, service company, you know, we, we don't sell a product, we sell our service. So the reviews, what, how do we handle not so good reviews?
[00:20:00] Speaker C: Well, we encourage our clients to leave us reviews, honest reviews, good or bad. We want the feedback. If we get a review that's, that's less than stellar, like we take that, we, we read what the clients say. We address if there's an issue and sometimes, you know, we'll implement changes if they need to be made. So if you have a negative review, like obviously nobody wants to get negative reviews. But we're, we're going to, we're going to reflect and see why did this client leave this review. We're going to respond, we respond to all of our reviews, all of our clients who leave reviews, good or bad or otherwise, because we appreciate it.
And I think, and you know, you.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: Look at reviews when you go someplace and you absolutely want a new restaurant or you look to see what other people are saying. Right. And also how, how the company responds to the not. So.
[00:20:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Good reviews.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: This is funny because I just was speaking to my husband and he was looking on eBay to purchase something. And he was telling me, I found this person and it looked great. But I looked and I just did. He didn't have any reviews, so I didn't use them. And that's true for everything. When you go out to eat, you're gonna. If you've never been there, you're gonna look at Yelp and you're gonna see what are people saying. If you look on Amazon and you have products you're gonna review, you're gonna compare the reviews. It's no different. It's no different for us.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: And it's so much more important, too, when you're dealing with, this is your.
[00:21:15] Speaker C: Retirement, this is your money, right?
[00:21:17] Speaker B: This is your mind, your money, your finance. This is how you're going to live the rest of your life. So don't take it lightly. Take as much time as you would more time to read the reviews and look at, and look at all the information about the company.
Is there any litigation going on with the company? Have they ever been part of an investigation? All of that is so important.
[00:21:37] Speaker C: Even just take a look at their website. If the website looks kind of bare bones. And that could be an indicator. If you take a look at Preferred Trust's website, it's very robust, very robust. There's a lot of depth to it. There's a lot of education. There's a lot of podcasts.
I've been on some custodian's websites.
It's just a homepage and an email address. And that would be concerning. Like, I wouldn't want to put my money into a company that doesn't even put their effort into their website.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: And where, like, we get sometimes we joke about sometimes, and it's. It's very rare, yet it should be more. I think we get clients that'll send us emails and ask questions about, well, how are you regulated and what state do you hold your license in? What type of license do you hold? You know, and those are such important questions. They are sometimes, wish I could take those clients and go, okay, now, now, speak to the rest of the world about this. You know, and I don't mind answering those questions because they're important. We encourage, you know, we are licensed in the state of Nevada by the Financial Institutions Division, and we are happy when they reach out to the commissioner or to the division to find out. You know, we get examined every year. Go and look at our examination results, look at if there were any concerns. These are. These are big things sometimes, you know, I think. I think sometimes customers might look at, I mean we all probably do this in our life. What if whatever we compare cost, you know, we price shop, you know, what is whatever? Where am I going to get the best deal? So getting the best deal doesn't always mean you're getting the best service.
[00:23:09] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Right. So. And we always say we, we are not the least expensive in the industry. We are certainly not the most expensive, but we are priced right for our services. And I think that peace of mind, knowing that, you know, you're at night, you can sleep at night, knowing that your assets are protected is the most important.
[00:23:27] Speaker C: It's worth it.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: It's worth it.
[00:23:28] Speaker C: It's worth it. Maybe paying a little bit more for your custodian. Yeah. I like to tell clients, we encourage you to shop around, to look at other custodians, ask questions to other custodians and you might find ones that are cheaper. But just remember, you're always going to get what you pay for.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: And you should call them. Call them and see how long it takes them to answer the phone.
[00:23:45] Speaker C: That's true.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Or return your voice message. Yeah, we like to secret shop sometimes too. I love to do that.
So what would be your recommendation, Christina? If we, you know, if you've got a client out there, maybe someone who might be interested in opening a self directed IRA A hasn't done it before or maybe has an account somewhere else with another self directed custodian and wants to is thinking about moving out. What moving? What are your recommendations? What are some of the things you would tell me?
[00:24:11] Speaker C: Just like what we've talked about, doing your due diligence, doing all your research, asking the questions. But if you don't know the questions that you need to ask, give us a call. Give preferred trust call. Let's have a conversation. Even if you don't end up moving here, it's good to give the client a peace of mind that they got their questions answered. And maybe they want to stay with their app with their current custodian or maybe they want to move over or maybe they want to sell and move somewhere and start buying stocks. But you have to have a conversation. You have to, you have to talk to a representative, ask all your questions.
A lot of them, I feel, I don't think do I think maybe they open an account, send their money, make their investment and then that's it.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: I think sometimes they throw their statement. They'll get one statement, they'll throw it in the drawer and never look at it again.
[00:24:54] Speaker C: Never look at it again.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Right. And then when it gets time to. Then when something does happen, the last statement they had might be from five years ago. You know, we see that a lot.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: We do. We see that often.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: We see that often.
[00:25:05] Speaker C: And so it is important to keep, I mean, it's your money. Like, keep up with it, keep track of it, Know what fees you're paying, know why you're paying those fees and what you get for those fees.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: And most of the time, most of us have online portals that you can get into. Just take a look once every 30 days. Just take a peek, you know. Just take a peek.
That's right. Ask the question.
[00:25:25] Speaker C: Ask the question. Asking questions is so important.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Agreed. Well, thanks. It's been very interesting today. I like the stories. I like hearing all. I see it all, you know, But I do like going back and talking about them.
And if you're out there and you're interested in opening an account with Preferred or you just need some assistance, have some questions, give us a call. You can always visit our
[email protected] and then join us next time for another edition of the Preferred Way.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us for another episode where retirement savers meet alternative investments. Can't wait for the next episode. To learn more, visit our website at preferredtrustcompany. Com.
